best engine for $$$$ --(Troubled)

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

hello ppl

I'll soon be upgrading my car with a new engine. The stock 1.6L with polished heads (lol) is on its way out, as its been a thrash motor all its life. I'm writing this msg, to get other opinions on the best engine for the cheapest price. I'll be looking at spending $2500 max on the engine itself.. piazza turbo maybe?

My ideas

- Stock 2 litre carby with twin WEBERS
- ISUZU 2 litre fuel inj. twin cam
- RODEO 2.6 fuel injected
- HOLDEN VN 3.8 V6

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

If you have 2500 bucks get something injected. Definately reccomend larger capacity G180/200 if you are going to rebuild as the cost is not too much extra. Twin cams are a fair mongorel to get working right, alot of fabrication of mounts etc is required, and you'll need a new gearbox too. The 2.6i Rodeo would be hugely expensive, especially if you had to buy new injectors/loom/computer. And if you can get the VN coversion done for 2500 you'd be laughing. Id reccomend keeping the engine as the SOHC Isuzu, upgrade to a 1.8 (rev easier than a 2.0) and go with the sidedrafts.
Just remember, the cops like stuff that looks 'normal' heheh.
-Tooleeda

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

Actually, the 2600 out of the rodeo is a bolt in fit. To the point where you can even use the stock Gemini exhaust manifold. Looks fairly standard too. You will have to use webbers if you want to ditch the factory EFI (unless you can afford the computer) and I am told the standard 5 speed bell housing pattern is the same as the rodeo 5 speed.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

Um, haven't ever done the swap myself so I will probably cop flak for saying this, but from what I heard the distributor has clearance problems with the brake booster/master cylinder.

Also it wouldn't really look that stock, the 4ZE1 has an external camshaft drive which makes it look more like the gemini diesel motor.

That said, the 4ZE1 is the motor I plan on fitting next, if I had $200 I could have bought one, damnit $200!!!!!! THAT IS $1800 cheaper than the next cheapest one and the $200 one was in better condition. DAMNIT DAMNIT.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

Looks stock unless you start chroming things etc. Most cops wouldn't know the difference provided it has the standard exhaust manifold on it. Go for the early model single reservoir master cylinder if there is any problem clearing the distributor.

1.6 to 2.6 has got to be worth it.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

Definitely dont go with a twin cam, dont make enough torque out of twin carbies, as the intake manifold is always too short to get good air speed.
3.8 V6 is rediculous amount of work, even if it was legal.
2.6 rodeo motor bolts straight in, to engine mounts and gearbox, but dizzy definitelt hits the master cylinder, and the fuel injection costs way too much to set up. this leaves getting a custom dizzy and twin downdraft carb setup (as sidedrafts dont fit) and your well over budget.
For your dollars, go for a nice carbyfed turbo setup on a single cam 1800. Turbo off a 12a, ser5 13b (not ser4)or something similar, 15psi on a standard bottom end and you should be safely running consistant 14s for about $1500

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

I thought i would put my bit in to!!
I have the Piazza motor in my car it is a very easy swap it bolts to the standard engine mounts & gearbox mounts & bolts up to the standard gem box there is clearence problems though at the rear of the engine bay which is simple to over come buy grinding of a small part of the lip of the engine bay.
A freind recently priced doing the conversion. $2000 for a front cut + $1500 for extras.
& by the way the twin cam swap is basic the only change is the gearbox bell housing needs to be changed other wise a straight bolt up swap, injection is very easy for both engines if you go for an aftermarket computer an old microtech computer, EFI fuel pump & regulator is all you need.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

"""For your dollars, go for a nice carbyfed turbo setup on a single cam 1800. Turbo off a 12a, ser5 13b (not ser4)or something similar, 15psi on a standard bottom end and you should be safely running consistant 14s for about $1500"""

I will be buying a reco 1800... thats about $500-700

then..... the turbocharger? inlet manifold? exhaust manifold? intercooler? upgrade of pistons? injectors? diff? brakes? drivetrain?

umm.. help

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

Carby fed turbos are very simple. You buy a sidedraft carby, probably a 40mm weber, dellorto, solex etc,because they seem to hold more boost, it should set you back about $150 to $200 at most. The exhaust manifold is a simple 3 inch pipe running a long the side of the head with 4 entrances for the exhaust, and one flange plate for the turbo to mount to. Should cost $200 to $250. A turbo will last with efi seals for a year at least before it needs rekitting, and can be picked up from any jap importers for $250 or so. and inlet pipe is probably $50, being a 2 inch pipe that runs over the tappet cover to a standard inlet manifold with the standard carby removed. use a throttle cable from an Eb falcon(mpi), about $30, mount the carby to the front of the turbo with rubber hose, ie radiator heavy duty hose suitable for fuel. fit a 21/2 inch dump pie to a 21/2 inch exhaust, another $200. No fuel injection reqd, no intercoolers or blow off valves. Oil feed is taken from the allen key blank offs down next to the oil pressure switch and you have to weld an oil return pipe to the sump. Fit a double row timing chanin for safety - about $100. Buy a Holley Blue fuel pump from the trading post for about $100. Using standard pistons, you can safely run 14psi boost and you will run low 14sec quarters at the minimum. Total bill is about $1200 plus your motor for $500 and youve just broken $1500 to beat a wrx consistantly. Look at the pictures of one of mine at http://isuzu.somewhere.net. Its a blue panel van. Hope this helps.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

I'm always keen to hear about setups like this, being very interested in bang for buck.
14psi with no decompression plate?

also does your mates car have a stock dizzy?

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

No, sorry forgot to mention dizzy. The dizzy has had the flyweights inside locked up. ie/ the mechanical advance has been stopped, so when the timing is set at 10 btdc, you bring the revs up, it doesnt advance any more. It stays at 10 btdc, therefore eliminating pinging due to timing. Standard compression is about 8.3:1 or something, and I run a boost controlled fuel reg. That means at idle the fuel pressure is 3 psi, but as boost goes above that, a vacuum line increases fuel pressure accordingly. ie/ 10psi boost uses 10psi fuel pressure, and this stops pinging due to lack of fuel. I am not experiencing any pinging on leaded fuel at 14psi boost and I am not running a decompression plate.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

I feel a bit mean for jumping down your throat, but dare I ask exactly how you propose changing the bellhousing on a gemini gearbox??? ugh.

old forum · hod rodder Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 15499

to be more specific you acyualy unbolt the front half of the case at the same time its all one pice, then its easy you just unbolt the front section of the gearbox and swap it for the twincam front half. the rear half of the box is interchangeable with a standard box, the only wory is you have to get the matching rear spline.