Who uses copper head gaskets????

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

It appears my new engine is leaking coolant and maybe a bit of oil down the side of the block from under the gasket as there are stains sort of like old coolant on a block which is newly painted. So Im thinking its is leaking. It was all done very carefully, the gasket came already annealed, we used ample amounts of copper sealant, and the head was torqued down to the right torque. All I can think is that its dew for its retorquing now, as it has several hours of dyno time on the engine, and that that is what caused it to leak. Is there any way to fix this? Will just torquing it down again now fix it or has the damage been done with water escaping already? And it appears to only be on the block side that its happening?
I dont want to take the head off but I think I may have to. Bye bye summernats.

Loz

ATG23Q · tinkerer Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 201

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

Well after the head was put on, hard to say. The speedo cable wasnt working before it went on the dyno, so a few hours of dyno work and a couple of me driving. Maybe 300km?? Dont really know. Im gonna try that and hope it does the job, apparently the copper sealant isnt bad at getting wet, and then resealing.

Loz

DR_GEM · tinkerer Joined: 29 Apr 2002 Posts: 92

Ive got my copper h/g but havent used it yet. My brother was saying the way they used to do it is heat it up before bolting the head on. did u use new head bolts or ur existing ones? i dont think it the retorque as you dont need that until bout 1500km.

Stock TE · backyard mechanic Joined: 12 Mar 2002 Posts: 853

Re-torqueing is 100km's isnt it. Ive been told they leak a bit of coolant regardless of what you do to it.

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

This one didnt need to be heated up as it came pre annealed. The head bolts were all from an engine I had that went after 1000km, so they were used but new. I checked them and they were all still in perfect nick.

spud · petrol head Joined: 05 Apr 2002 Posts: 1106

i had a couple engines rebuilt. both times i was told to do 1000 km. but 1 time i got me head repaired on my gem and had to get it retorqued after 100km. so that doesnt help at all im sure.
spud

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

LOL...Boy I hope your right. I'll just retorque and hope I guess. What have I got to lose.

Josh · backyard mechanic Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 602

I dont really know much about them but... it makes sence to heat the gasket up before installing it but it would also make sence to run the engine till it's at operating tempreture and then turn it off and tighten the head bolts down but not quite to the max toque setting and the bolts will be under more stress when the engine cools back down... give it a go anyhow. Was the head machined and was the block decked before u assembled the engine?????

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

hahaha...thanks.

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

Of course. The block was o-ringed so decking was a must, and thehead had the reciever grooves cut, so it had to be machined aswell.
A copper gasket has to be annealed before using it, ie. heated up and softened so that it is all uniform. Thats why they are heated, usually if they are reused(which is the beauty of copper gaskets). But mine came already annealed, so it wasnt necessary.

van8u · rice boy Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 48

Loz dont worry its very common with compression over 10:1 on a gemy motor for it to do what yours is doing.. it shows you have actually got the comp ! rip of your rocker cover & give your head a retorque & add 10 pounds to the recomended as the copper is softer then gaskets & will take alittle more to crush ! man yu will make sumernats.... Smile

& if your still having probs get urself a tube of silverlite from an auto store & add that to the radiator water & that will chemically bond the copper to the cast steel & alloy..

ONLYA4 · petrol head Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1114

Loz wouldn't be running 10:1 compression, he is running a turbo setup, so i would hope he is running less than standard compression, about 8:1. What did you use to seal is Loz? I have heard that stuff called 3Bond is the best, used in racing motorbikes.

GasGem · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Nov 2001 Posts: 755

Hey Loz,

I run a copper head gasket in my turbo setup and found the only way to seal it is to get your hands on some 3BOND, it is Japanese motor bike headgasket sealant. all instructions are in Japanese, looks like white sealant, cover every surface in it let it go off and bolt it all together, has not leaked in 3 yrs of 18psi...

cheers

Loz · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 943

Just rememeber though, Im forcing compressed air into the cylinder aswell though at boost. So Its the equivalant of having like 15:1 (i have no idea what exactly) and the compression is much higher than a high comp n/a motor. I think. But you are right, static compression is 8.2:1.

I used 3Bond copper coat, or whatever it is. Nearly $40 a tube so it better seal.