speaker in kick panel

kaan_kaant · newbie Joined: 31 Dec 2001 Posts: 6

whats the deal with installation of speakers into the gemini kick panels? i have never personally seen it done, but have heard that it can be pretty effective. does anybody know what maximum size and depth of speaker may be installed into these? and how easy is installation?

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: speaker in kick panel

u have to build ( fiberglass ect..) a small pod onto the kick pannel to house the speaker in. i could only see a 4" or a 5" speaker fitting in there, if i just cut into the sid of the metel there would be no point in puting them there as u will lose volume/sound up behind the dash, and also u should neve fix a speker to a metal surface. always back it it with a piece of wood preferable MDF. but a pod would be the way to go as it will inclose the speker making it sound clearer.
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LoneWolf_ · tinkerer Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 159

I agree with Gene. I installed a set of Alpine splits into the doors of my TX the other day, simply because installing them into the kick panels was not an option. The amount of cutting/building versus the amount of volume lost behind the dash just wasn't worth it. Plus, in my TX, the fusebox is on the drivers side kickpanel, and there isn't really anywhere else for it to go.

Now with the 6" splits in my doors (although now my doors have holes in them) sounds really nice. Haven't got a sub, and don't really need one Smile

martin · backyard mechanic Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 900

i've got 5 inch 50 watt coaxials in the kick panels of my gem. as well as a set of 6 inchers in the doors

dont bother if your kick panel speakers arn't powered by an amp cause u will loose all the clarity from lack of volume. they can actually be very good if they are aimed at you. also try putting them out of phase with your door speakers... it changes your imaging slightly and can sound nice... just have a play and see what works

kaan_kaant · newbie Joined: 31 Dec 2001 Posts: 6

thanks for that. it looks like i will be installing the speakers into the doors then. however, i have been told that only very shallow speakers may be installed into them, as my 6.5" splits are quite deep (6.5cm approx). does anybody have any info about this?

martin · backyard mechanic Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 900

you can either buy some speaker spacers

buy some pre fabricated door pods or make your own ring things that the speakers sit in

its a pretty hard compromise... obviously a 6 incher can put out a fair bit of bass cause of its cone size but to make it get any volume it needs to have a decent sized magnet to move it

so unless u have big bucks to spend on high end small efficient stuff with magnets from mars then you are probly gonna have to forget looks and go for functionality..

the sound quality can be very rewarding though!

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:58 am Post subject: Re: speaker in kick panel

ok ok one question no one has answered me. what the hell is out of phase???
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Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:07 am Post subject: have a look here!!

this is what i have done to space out my deep set of splits.
go to this link on my page and have a look in the "CREATION OF MY GEMINI, then page 2 and also the "HOW TO RETRIM YA GEMINI part has a few photos.. it shows ya the pods i made for my dors.
http://communities.ninemsn.com.au/GeminiFever

but if u have a spair $130 i would buy a pair of prefabricated door pods!! they sound sweet as and look nice
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kickemharder · rice boy Joined: 12 Jan 2002 Posts: 27

When you put a speaker out of phase with another you simply switch you lead so + is connected to - and - to +. By doing this you revers the phase of the AC signal.

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: speaker in kick panel

but what does this do for the sound???
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Wazza · rice boy Joined: 16 Oct 2001 Posts: 48

hey gene,
well as far as i know it doesnt really do much for the sound and is more likeley to diminish it if anything.
basicallay instead of teh cone moving out at a certain time it will move in, and vice-versa, so basically you get two waves 180 degrees out of phase, and if two speakers are playing together (at teh same frequency) like this then when the two waves hit or interact, then they will cancel one another out as one wil have 'positive displacement' and one will have 'negative displacement' if graphed on a time verses displacement graph... of course if you had a set up like this you could just have different cut-off frequencies for each speaker, thus they wont ever be playing teh same frequency....
hehe sorry if thats hard to understand but im not great at explaining stuff, hope it helps though

martin · backyard mechanic Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 900

you can usually hear if something is out of phase cause it will lack clarity and punch (if its bass)

out of phase subs with 6x9's can often be a problem, one wire that has been reversed somewhere can cause a lot of grief while you crank the bass and it still sounds muddy

Mooch · backyard mechanic Joined: 17 Oct 2001 Posts: 573

Things to look for if ur not going to be running an amp would be no1, eficiency - ie better quality and "louder" sound for less power. Also, match the nominal power rating to that close to your head unit. However allow do ethe upgrade to an amp.

For example: a head unit advertised as 4 x 40 watts will produce approximately 15watts of nominal power. In other words what the head unit really puts out to the speaker. Choosing a speaker that has a nominal power rating of 60 watts will sound quite ordinary. However, one that is rated at say, 30-40 watts will sound better at a higher volume. The more u under power a speaker the worse it will distort and the quicker it'll "melt". It's worse to under power than to over power. If you can choose something with a good power rating and efficiency rating you'll be set.

I'm sure you've heard systems made up of top line speakers and head units that sound average. They usually do when there's no amps powering the components. However, i've heard simple systems that sound clearer and tighter and cost only half as much for mediocre equipment. Dad is running a Clarion 6 stacker deck in his run around work car. It puts out about 12-13watts nominal.(35x4) Off this he has some 30 watt (100watt peak) clarion 6" 2 ways and 40watt (150 watt peak) 6x9's also clarion. It's sounds so clear and punches so tight even at nearly full deck volume.

Companies advertise they're products at their "peak" power rating coz it sounds better when your speakers can handle 220watts! that doesn't mean they go louder, actually as i explained they can sound worse! Match your system in it's capabilites and you'll have crystal clear, quality sound.

Talk to reputable sound dealers and tell them exactly what you want. Bring your own cd's and try different types of music, not just digital techno/dance stuff they have. Even shit gear can sound good with that music. Make sure the speakers you are listening to are being powered only off of the deck, not an amp.

This turned out to be a bloody essay but u get that, i always write long winded shit. I have probably confused you but atleast it kept me amused for 5 mins.

Cheers
Adam

kickemharder · rice boy Joined: 12 Jan 2002 Posts: 27

The main reason why the speakers melt is not due to under powering. You could quite happly run a set of 150W RMS speakers of a 15W RMS head unit and you would not run into any problems. The problems start to pop up when a person trys to convince their mates that the system is a SPL demond and as soon as they turn the volume past halfway the units (usually pretty piss weak) internal amp stars feeding massive amounts of distortion to the speakers and you get the awful question: "Hey, should your speakers be smoking like that" and there goes you speakers.

macca · tinkerer Joined: 17 Oct 2001 Posts: 179

Hi Gene

Where can you get these door pods?
What mirrors are on your gemini

Thanks

Macca