Engine Conversions --(Morgoth)

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Hi folks,

I stumbled across a website which lists a lot of the Jap import motors that you can get performance figures, and the cars that they will bolt into...

http://www.auscars.homepage.com/hp/frames/importisuzu.html

Here's the parts concerning Gem's

G180 RWD 1817cc DOHC
97kw@6400
162Nm@5000

G200 RWD 1949cc DOHC
101kw@6200
167Nm@5000

4ZC1 RWD 1994cc TURBO DOHC
134kw@5400


4ZE1G FWD & AWD 2559cc OHC (Although i cant see how this one can suit a RWD Gem (as it states)
90kw@5000
196Nm@2600


FITS....
Gemini TX; TC; TD; TE; TF; TG
Rodeo KB; TF
Jackaroo UBS

Now for the RB

4XC1 FWD 1588cc TURBO DOHC
90kw@5800

4XE1 FWD 1588cc DOHC
104kw@7200
142Nm@5600

4XE1 FWD TURBO 1588cc DOHC
134kw@6600
208Nm@4800

FITS...
RB Gemini

Hmm, the 4ZC1 looks pretty damn tempting!

I'm amazed that there's such little difference between the G180 and the G200, even in the Torque figures

Derek

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Does anyone know how much I would be looking at spending in getting a 4ZC1 into my TD coupe? Does it need to be imported and how much would that cost me and how much is it for the engine itself?

Help is appreciated.

Crackers

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OR.. you could go for the 2.6L 4ZE1 from Holden Rodeo's for a better base for mods. Sure, it has no turbo, but slap a turbo and a few other simple mods onto that baby and you'll smoke the best of them ('cept maybe that 350 chev Gemini from the photo page). Probably much easier to get, wreckers should have a few around, but you cant really guarantee the condition of those ones. If you really want a 4ZC1, best bet is to ring around the japanese importers in your state, Yellow Pages is a big help in this field. You're probably looking at around $2-3k for the engine, gearbox & electrics (seems the going price for performance jap import motors these days). As far as fitting goes, if you're in Brisbane, I'm pretty sure Adam Gibson will help you out (sorry if i dipped you in the shit there Ad.) And it's just a straight bolt in AFAIK, so even if you got a pro to fit it, shouldnt cost too much ($200-$500 maybe?). Also, if you're going for the 4ZC1, you should look into getting an intercooler (i dont think it comes with one, does it?) and crank the boost

Just dont forget to upgrade the brakes etc. Dont want to see a nice TD Coupe mangled around a tree/smashed into a wall/car, Let alone yourself.

Whatever you do decide with (if anything) please take photos, and send them in to us nice folks here at the hotgemini.com forum :)

Also, on that same note, how much would it cost to fit a turbo to the 4ZE1 then? and how much arse would that kick? (rhetorical question)

When you're spending money on your engine, think of the following thing

Million dollar formula 1 engines, produce 'only' 700hp (just over 500kW) granted they're only 3 litre, and no turbo's, but you, with no restrictions can have 250kW or so with only a few grand spent

Derek

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Just a reminder to those that read this list that the 4ZC1 Piazza engine is only SOHC, not twin cam. I read a similar list in a ZOOM mag once and they also stated the piazza engine was twin cam. I've never seen a twin cam one though.

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I know the turbo is only SOHC but I was under the impression (be it right or wrong) that a twin cam head was available??? clarify anyone?

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No problem derek, by the way F1 engines produce comfortably well over 800hp(600kw) from 3 litres and do it at 16000rpm.

Japanese motorsport lists the 4ZC1 turbo motor with gearbox and electrics at $1750, they are never the cheapest but regardless give a good ballpark figure. Whilst this is cheaper than Derek's estimate, fitting will be more, you need to accomodate for a full fuel system upgrade. Which means, two new fuel pumps, two fuel filters, surge tank and efi fuel lines. Then you will need a custom exhaust to match up with the turbo outlet, to register you will also need a catalytic converter and a modified fuel filler neck (unleaded only), talk to your RTA/DOT/etc. and find out if they will require a front brake upgrade or any other mods.

[old forum]

Okay then, what engine would be the best for me then. I might try to stay away from turbos then, sounds like a fair bit of work and cost too.

I would prefer to get an engine that would bolt straight in, with a lot more punch than the current G161. Suggestions anybody? Should I just go with the G200? Or is there a better solution?

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I may be mistaken (as people usually are when quoting Murray Walker),(Hell, even AJ (Alan Jones, ex f1 champ) called them V12's the other day (when infact they're V10's) but i believe it's the champ cars (indy/cart) that produce over 800hp, with the aid of turbochargers. (as did F1 in days gone by) Nonetheless, it's still (comparatively) not much to pay a few grand for an engine when you look at it this way (granted this situation is well out of context, and makes my so called arguments null and void)

Derek

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From Japan, anything is possible, hell, look at some of the Anime they've pulled out of their arses.

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Depends how much power you want, for day to day street racing (of course within the speed limits) build yourself a hot two litre, port the fuck out of the head, Stage 2 cam, Extractors or the TX sports coupe manifold and 2-2.5 inch exhaust, aim for around 9.6:1 compression, fully balanced bottom end, lightened and balanced flywheel.

This will then drop in to the standard engine bay, attach to the standard gearbox (make sure you have a 5 speed), and will look to most people, fairly standard.

If you want stupid power then perhaps the 4ZC1 and 4ZE1 are the go, but each time you go a little more silly with the power the costs go up ten times.

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I am sticking with 800hp, as I remember reading that they were making this with the 3.5 litre engine capacity and within 6 months of losing 500cc they were back up to their previous power, and within 12 months of losing the extra capacity they were making more torque and power across the entire powerband which had notably moved 4000rpm further up.
tThis was a number of years ago.

Name: 2000 MERCEDES-BENZ FO110J V10
Type: 72-degree V10
Capacity: 2990cc
Valve Arrangement: 2 camshafts per bank
4 per cylinder
Cylinder Block: Cast aluminium alloy, wet liners
Cylinder Head: One piece sand cast aluminium alloy
Crank Shaft: Steel
Oil System: Dry sump
Ignition: TAG Electronic Systems

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But you don't need a cat or special filler in Vic cos the emissions are tested for the age of the car. If you put a ULP motor in, you still don't need the CAT in Vic.

Fuel duties aren't that expensive or diffucult either. Buy a pre made one, or if your good at welding, it's not hard. It's a good idea to replace all fuel hoses anyway!!